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	<title>Comments on: Hunters, Anglers and Climate Change</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/</link>
	<description>A blog on conservation, from migratory birds to coral reefs, from rainforests to climate change to personal green technology.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:34:44 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-8625</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-8625</guid>
		<description>we all need to flock together on the issue of reducing carbon in the air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we all need to flock together on the issue of reducing carbon in the air.</p>
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		<title>By: lcstech</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7749</link>
		<dc:creator>lcstech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7749</guid>
		<description>To HCR, you need to educate your self why hunters hunt and why it fits hand in hand with the topic of conservation. It is fun, like camping is fun, but to true hunters the fun is not about the kill, or a trophy. It is a much, much deeper experience, nearly spiritual for some. I have just as much fun when I don’t see what I’m looking for. The connection hunters have with nature is primal, just as the connection all humans have with nature is. Hunters are in fact the original conservationists, and it goes way back in time, beyond our modern society, which has nearly unplugged from nature. Those who bash hunting as HCR did, do not understand what it is, or why people do it. Try reading &quot;The Sacred Art of Hunting&quot; by James Swan (a non-hunter), it will give you a better perspective on the fact the hunting is not about annihilation of all the animals on the planet, it has a much deeper meaning to all societies on the planet, and their ancestors. Anyone who eats meat would be better off knowing what it takes to hunt, kill, and prepare their own meat, just once. There is an element of honor in doing your own dirty work, and to ensure nothing goes to waste as you stand before your god knowing you&#039;ve taken a life for food. It’s humbling and meaningful to know you&#039;re responsible for the meal on your plate from the hunters eyes. Many who only go to the butcher shop in their local store for packaged meat, really do not comprehend the fact that someone is doing the killing on their behalf. Even if they admit they know that is the case, they do not really appreciate it at the level of the hunter.
I do understand that there are bad apples in the hunting group, just as there are in any other group. But just as you would not judge others by the acts of a few, perhaps you should instead judge hunters by their acts of conservation. Only hunting what they&#039;ll eat, assisting in conservation via every purchase they make for gear and licensing through fees and taxes. Supporting of groups such as this one and others. Take Ducks Unlimited as an example, the DU group alone is more responsible for conserving the remaining habitat for ducks and wetland birds than any other group, globally. 80+ % of the group is hunters or former hunters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To HCR, you need to educate your self why hunters hunt and why it fits hand in hand with the topic of conservation. It is fun, like camping is fun, but to true hunters the fun is not about the kill, or a trophy. It is a much, much deeper experience, nearly spiritual for some. I have just as much fun when I don’t see what I’m looking for. The connection hunters have with nature is primal, just as the connection all humans have with nature is. Hunters are in fact the original conservationists, and it goes way back in time, beyond our modern society, which has nearly unplugged from nature. Those who bash hunting as HCR did, do not understand what it is, or why people do it. Try reading &#8220;The Sacred Art of Hunting&#8221; by James Swan (a non-hunter), it will give you a better perspective on the fact the hunting is not about annihilation of all the animals on the planet, it has a much deeper meaning to all societies on the planet, and their ancestors. Anyone who eats meat would be better off knowing what it takes to hunt, kill, and prepare their own meat, just once. There is an element of honor in doing your own dirty work, and to ensure nothing goes to waste as you stand before your god knowing you&#8217;ve taken a life for food. It’s humbling and meaningful to know you&#8217;re responsible for the meal on your plate from the hunters eyes. Many who only go to the butcher shop in their local store for packaged meat, really do not comprehend the fact that someone is doing the killing on their behalf. Even if they admit they know that is the case, they do not really appreciate it at the level of the hunter.<br />
I do understand that there are bad apples in the hunting group, just as there are in any other group. But just as you would not judge others by the acts of a few, perhaps you should instead judge hunters by their acts of conservation. Only hunting what they&#8217;ll eat, assisting in conservation via every purchase they make for gear and licensing through fees and taxes. Supporting of groups such as this one and others. Take Ducks Unlimited as an example, the DU group alone is more responsible for conserving the remaining habitat for ducks and wetland birds than any other group, globally. 80+ % of the group is hunters or former hunters.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7738</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7738</guid>
		<description>Re HCR&#039;s comment, I don&#039;t think our friend, Matt, need apologize for hunting. 
Hunting may be fun, I&#039;ll grant you that, but like Matt, I hunt for food--and I don&#039;t hunt what I don&#039;t choose to eat. In most areas of the U.S. there is an abundance of game, and the reality is that they need to be hunted to manage populations. I also subsribe to the &#039;localvore&#039; concept, and wild game is free-range, locally gown, humanely slaughtered natural food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re HCR&#8217;s comment, I don&#8217;t think our friend, Matt, need apologize for hunting.<br />
Hunting may be fun, I&#8217;ll grant you that, but like Matt, I hunt for food&#8211;and I don&#8217;t hunt what I don&#8217;t choose to eat. In most areas of the U.S. there is an abundance of game, and the reality is that they need to be hunted to manage populations. I also subsribe to the &#8216;localvore&#8217; concept, and wild game is free-range, locally gown, humanely slaughtered natural food.</p>
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		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7467</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7467</guid>
		<description>@ Joseph Barney:

When you say that veganism shrinks your brain, I presume you refer to Vitamin B-12, which is essential for a healthy nervous system and is not naturally found in plants.

B-12 does not originate in animals, it comes from bacteria which line the stomachs of animals. Similarly, if you took vegetables out of the ground and ate them without washing them you could get B-12 from the soil residue, though that would be unhealthy.

Vegans are not intrinsically B-12 deficient, as you suggest. They can get their B-12 through either vitamins or fortified foods. The B-12 is synthesized from bacteria cultures.

Two other points:

Indigenous people can cause environmental destruction, too. The first human settlers of Madagascar, New Zealand, and Easter Island were not Europeans or imperialists, but they wiped out species and caused environmental havoc just the same. Also, there is suggestive evidence that the first people to migrate to the Americas more than ten thousand years ago were responsible for megafauna extinctions. You can read about it in Jared Diamond&#039;s &quot;The Third Chimpanzee&quot;.

The suggestion that vegans &quot;are somewhat of cannibals&quot; for eating anything at all necessitates an eye-rolling. Vegans are under no illusion that &quot;kingdomism&quot; is on any firmer ground than &quot;speciesism&quot;. Vegans do not think killing animals is wrong merely because they are animals, but because many animals (although not all) have the capacity to feel pain and suffering. At a minimum this would include vertebrates and cephalopods as groups of animals possessing &quot;inalienable rights&quot;. Other animal phyla do not possess a capacity for suffering. Sponges and corals are animals but are not seen by vegans as intrinsically morally valuable, so if they object to the death of a sponge or coral it would be for environmental reasons, not because of animal rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Joseph Barney:</p>
<p>When you say that veganism shrinks your brain, I presume you refer to Vitamin B-12, which is essential for a healthy nervous system and is not naturally found in plants.</p>
<p>B-12 does not originate in animals, it comes from bacteria which line the stomachs of animals. Similarly, if you took vegetables out of the ground and ate them without washing them you could get B-12 from the soil residue, though that would be unhealthy.</p>
<p>Vegans are not intrinsically B-12 deficient, as you suggest. They can get their B-12 through either vitamins or fortified foods. The B-12 is synthesized from bacteria cultures.</p>
<p>Two other points:</p>
<p>Indigenous people can cause environmental destruction, too. The first human settlers of Madagascar, New Zealand, and Easter Island were not Europeans or imperialists, but they wiped out species and caused environmental havoc just the same. Also, there is suggestive evidence that the first people to migrate to the Americas more than ten thousand years ago were responsible for megafauna extinctions. You can read about it in Jared Diamond&#8217;s &#8220;The Third Chimpanzee&#8221;.</p>
<p>The suggestion that vegans &#8220;are somewhat of cannibals&#8221; for eating anything at all necessitates an eye-rolling. Vegans are under no illusion that &#8220;kingdomism&#8221; is on any firmer ground than &#8220;speciesism&#8221;. Vegans do not think killing animals is wrong merely because they are animals, but because many animals (although not all) have the capacity to feel pain and suffering. At a minimum this would include vertebrates and cephalopods as groups of animals possessing &#8220;inalienable rights&#8221;. Other animal phyla do not possess a capacity for suffering. Sponges and corals are animals but are not seen by vegans as intrinsically morally valuable, so if they object to the death of a sponge or coral it would be for environmental reasons, not because of animal rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7394</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7394</guid>
		<description>Just think how much cooler the earth would be without the windbags in DC and the internet!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just think how much cooler the earth would be without the windbags in DC and the internet!</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7393</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7393</guid>
		<description>Global warming is bunk.  This is one of the coldest Julys on record.  Where is Al Gore?  Polishing his &quot;piece&quot; award?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Global warming is bunk.  This is one of the coldest Julys on record.  Where is Al Gore?  Polishing his &#8220;piece&#8221; award?</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Barney</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7318</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7318</guid>
		<description>Even though hunting is not my thing, I don&#039;t see hunters as merely &quot;destroyers of nature.&quot; Poachers, yes, and even some trophy hunters (mainly those that do it illegally), but you know...Native Americans hunted. Many hunters today eat the game they kill and animals, even your housecat is a hunter. 

I also don&#039;t agree with things like Animal Liberation Front, PETA, Greenpeace but love animals...am against animal cruelity. I know we have to eat meat...it&#039;s biological. Vegans are doing their bodies some harm, at least in the brain area. No joke intended. Your brain will shrink without eating meat, at least fish or poultry. Not super shrinking and everyone would be affected differently but your brain does regulate more than thinking...i.e. breathing, hormone levels etc. Although, lots of red meat and egg yolks can be bad. However, eating vegetables also with meat and whatnot, is definitely good. 

Even though it was partially hunters in the past that caused some wildlife population problems, you can even more blame settlers, logging, making big cities, pollution like pesticides. You know, people in general including those that are into animal rights. About the only people that didn&#039;t decimate the land were the Native Americans who were orginally here, and maybe a few hippies. :P Not to say every Native American is always good. They fought amongst each other a lot too, you get the picture. People have to eat and if you wanna nitpick, we do share DNA with plants too...so you vegans are somewhat of cannibals. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though hunting is not my thing, I don&#8217;t see hunters as merely &#8220;destroyers of nature.&#8221; Poachers, yes, and even some trophy hunters (mainly those that do it illegally), but you know&#8230;Native Americans hunted. Many hunters today eat the game they kill and animals, even your housecat is a hunter. </p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t agree with things like Animal Liberation Front, PETA, Greenpeace but love animals&#8230;am against animal cruelity. I know we have to eat meat&#8230;it&#8217;s biological. Vegans are doing their bodies some harm, at least in the brain area. No joke intended. Your brain will shrink without eating meat, at least fish or poultry. Not super shrinking and everyone would be affected differently but your brain does regulate more than thinking&#8230;i.e. breathing, hormone levels etc. Although, lots of red meat and egg yolks can be bad. However, eating vegetables also with meat and whatnot, is definitely good. </p>
<p>Even though it was partially hunters in the past that caused some wildlife population problems, you can even more blame settlers, logging, making big cities, pollution like pesticides. You know, people in general including those that are into animal rights. About the only people that didn&#8217;t decimate the land were the Native Americans who were orginally here, and maybe a few hippies. <img src='http://blog.nature.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  Not to say every Native American is always good. They fought amongst each other a lot too, you get the picture. People have to eat and if you wanna nitpick, we do share DNA with plants too&#8230;so you vegans are somewhat of cannibals. <img src='http://blog.nature.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bob St.Pierre</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7306</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob St.Pierre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7306</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great blog and spreading the conservation message.  As hunters &amp; anglers, we are absolutely passionate about being engaged in these issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great blog and spreading the conservation message.  As hunters &#038; anglers, we are absolutely passionate about being engaged in these issues.</p>
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		<title>By: HCR</title>
		<link>http://blog.nature.org/2009/07/hunters-anglers-climate-change-matt-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-7293</link>
		<dc:creator>HCR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.nature.org/?p=5405#comment-7293</guid>
		<description>Thanks for reminding me why I don&#039;t support the &quot;Nature Conservancy&quot;. I&#039;d rather support organizations that preserve nature for nature&#039;s sake rather than those that preserve it so that they can enjoy annihilating nature&#039;s inhabitants. If you have to kill animals for fun, you need a new hobby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for reminding me why I don&#8217;t support the &#8220;Nature Conservancy&#8221;. I&#8217;d rather support organizations that preserve nature for nature&#8217;s sake rather than those that preserve it so that they can enjoy annihilating nature&#8217;s inhabitants. If you have to kill animals for fun, you need a new hobby.</p>
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